Ep 8 – Conversation with Gianluca Pandolfo ( Sales Director EMEA, Patagonia)
In this episode, we talk to Gianluca Pandolfo, Sales Director, EMEA region at Patagonia, the American clothing company. Gianluca spent 10 years in The North Face before joining Patagonia seven years ago. He starts by talking about his sustainability journey and then about Patagonia’s mission leading to its current status as a B Corp taking us along on Patagonia’s sustainability initiatives. Gianluca then talks about the importance of their customers and how they take consumers along the sustainability journey. The conversation then moves to Issues regarding repairing clothes and moving away from make -> waste culture to a sustainable lifecycle for their products and how it helps in a strong customer relationship. Gianluca then talks about Patagonia’s unique relationship with its employees, who are supported to be socially active in their own geographies. Then Patagonia and its partners’ relationships are explored and how Patagonia’s lead in social and environmental justice movements and having high standards can bring press scrutiny. The podcast episode ends with Gianlucas’s thoughts on what Patagonia’s future looks like.
Gianluca Pandolfo is responsible for the strategic management and sales (Retail & Wholesale) and business development operations within the EMEA Markets including distribution and channel strategy, market competitiveness, leading teams and individuals, and improving processes.
Key moments timestamps
[00:25]- Gianluca’s sustainability journey
[02:31]- About Patagonia’s mission
[04:21]- On Patagonia becoming a B corp and B Corp vs Benefit Corp
[06:49]- Patagonia’s sustainability initiatives
[09:02]- Taking consumers along the sustainability journey
[10:24]- Issues regarding repairing clothes
[12:04]- Patagonia and its customers’ relationship
[14:21]- Patagonia and its employees’ relationship
[18:24]- The joy of literally hugging trees
[19:10]- Patagonia and its partners’ relationship
[21:17]- On social justice vs environmental justice
[24:53]- On having high standards and dealing with press scrutiny
[26:58]- Gianlucas’s thoughts on Patagonia’s future
“Patagonia is committed to transparency, accountability, and fixing problems with honesty, whenever they come to light. So that is the starting point. And we do mistakes, but this is, there is also the positive side of doing mistakes because it’s showing to everyone that no one can do everything right and then if you wanna be a pioneer in anything, or if you wanna do something it’s inevitable that you will do mistake. What is important is to admit those mistakes and take action. So the mistake is a problem itself, but how you deal with the problem is what is making a difference.” – Gianluca Pandolfo
“So whatever you wanna repair – a shirt, a jacket, a competitor jacket, doesn’t matter. We are there to repair them and to make you happy. Because everyone has a product and we need to understand “product is memories”. So we need to keep that product alive as long as possible. And we are responsible of that product, not only when we buy and we use it, but also when we are going to dismiss it.” – Gianluca Pandolfo
[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to More With Less, the podcast that looks at how businesses balance financial growth with sustainability. I am Venkata Gandikota and I’m Jaideep Prabhu.
[00:00:25] Jaideep Prabhu: Our guest on this episode is Gianluca Pandolfo, Sales Director, EMEA region at Patagonia, the American clothing company, that markets and sell outdoor clothing. Gianluca, we thank you for taking the time to talk to us. Perhaps we could start with your personal journey and your career.
When and why did you choose to work for Patagonia and how did you get into sustainability?
[00:00:48] Gianluca Pandolfo: First of all, thank you very much for having me here and giving me the opportunity to have a chat with both of you. I’m Italian as you might understand from my accent. I have a wonderful wife and an amazing daughter, seven years old, and I’m another person. I spent 10 years in The North Face before joining Patagonia seven years ago in Amsterdam to the European headquarter.
At that time, Patagonia was not in Europe as big as it is right now and our understanding of Patagonia at the time was mainly recognized through sport, less through environment. So my contact with Patagonia was through sport. I’m an outdoor passionate person working for The North Face.
I had the chance to join Patagonia. And at that time, there was always that question, is it really real what Patagonia does or is just marketing? And that question, you will never be able to answer until you don’t join the company. So I was also curious, and then I got into the company seven years ago and in this seven years, Patagonia is a really transformative company because you are exposed to a lot of information. So a lot of people that really care about sustainability and environment that you start deep diving into matters. You start to educate yourself. You are exposed to so many informations that you want to be part of the change.
And then I can say that this journey has transformed me. I’m completely not completely a different person, but I’m definitely a more, a conscious person, a conscious and responsible consumer than what I was seven years ago. And that is also from a sales point of view. As a sales guy is quite unique. Usually sales people are just selling. In this case, as I may have the opportunity to tell you later, I feel like by selling, I can contribute to our mission statement.
[00:02:31] Venkata Gandikota: That’s great. So you talked very briefly on your journey from North Face to Patagonia. So can you tell us a bit more about Patagonia, the company itself? What has been the company’s journey in terms of sustainability? What you have heard before you joined and maybe what after you joined.
[00:02:47] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yeah. As you stated briefly, before Patagonia is an outdoor clothing company, we make cloth for outdoor sports, such as climbing, surf and fishing. And we have a clear and straightforward mission statement. We are in business to save our home planet. The company was founded in 1973 by Yvon Chouinard, his wife and a group of dirtbag climbers. So it’s almost the 50 years anniversary in next year. So it’s a big celebration. And when we talk about sustainability, let me tell you that Patagonia was not then and it is not now a sustainable company. What we call ourself, we call we are a responsible company and we say we are a responsible company because being responsible means say undertaking the hard process of self inspection, and course correction. And we do it step by step over time. So as I said, the company was founded in 1973. We had the first grant to an NGO in 1985. Our first mission statement was 1991. We start using recycled polyester in 1993.
Organic cotton in 96, we became 1% for the planet in 2002, a B Corp in 2011. And then in 2011, also we did a famous don’t buy this jacket ad that became quite big in US. Put simply it has been a process of patagonia cleaning it’s own act based on the undeniable truth that making stuff, product in this case, has an impact on the planet.
[00:04:21] Jaideep Prabhu: Really interesting. So Gianluca, you mentioned something about becoming a B Corp and I believe that Patagonia is both a certified B Corp a nd a registered benefit corporation for some years now. What does it mean to be a B Corp versus a Benefit corporation? And why did Patagonia go down that route?
[00:04:41] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yeah, that’s a very good question because there are sometimes some confusion between. Benefit corporation and the B Corp. So a benefit corporation is a legal structure that advances stakeholders governance into the business DNA. Basically it creates the legal framework that enable mission driven companies like Patagonia to stay mission driven through succession, for example, or capital raises or even changes of in ownership.
So the benefit corporation structure is not a certification and benefit corporation are not required to meet B Lab standards. Instead to be a B Corp certified company, a company needs to go through the process and meet a B Lab standards. That are very different. So to qualify as a B Corp, a company must have an explicit social, environmental mission and a legally binding responsibility to take into account the interest of workers, the community, the environment, and the shareholders.
This is the difference between between the two and Patagonia was the first California company to be B Corp was in 2011 and Patagonia joined over 500 certified B corporation coming from 60 different industries. Now there are more than 4,000 companies that represent a new kind of business that balance purpose and profit.
But let me add, this is become a certified B Corp is really important, but what is even more important is to start the process because when a CEO of the owner of a company decided to take this path is also opening up the company to a third part that is getting to your company is looking into your business and is going to tell you what is going well, what doesn’t go well and what has to be improved.
And this is an important, open, and the owner of the company need to open up and be that would say flexible to accept those feedback and the fact that every two years then you’re going to be reevaluated is going also to put some tension and pressure to make sure that you improve after year. So there’s not a finish line.
[00:06:49] Venkata Gandikota: That’s quite interesting. I actually had a bit of an experience. I attended a B Corp workshop in Helsinki a few years ago, and then it was quite interesting. All the questionnaire one has to fail. So I truly appreciate Patagonia actually going through the process. And actually being certified as one. One of the things that I seeing is Patagonia as a company you have embraced and you’re experimenting with circular business models.
So can you tell us a bit about initiatives like Worn Wear and Recrafted and maybe how they are going, like what’s the current status?
[00:07:20] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yeah, Since 73, Patagonia is focusing on producing quality products. And was one of the first company to apply industrial design into clothing design. And this was to make our product durable and multifunctional. So Worn Wear, as a guide principle, exists since then. Has always been part of our DNA. The way we are now looking at Worn Wear is a partnership between Patagonia and our customers that is designed to redefine how we think about production, consumption and ownership of apparel, and to make sure that we, as a consumer, we take responsibility for our products throughout their whole life cycle.
So these days in Patagonia we are working to embed Worn Wear at the center of our business. So I give you some concrete facts here. We are really working to make sure our customers, our community can buy new product, but also secondhand product. And we are also working to make sure we have a program of buyback.
So customers can sell us back the product they have used. We are also working to make sure our customer can repair and care for their product and either themself or with our support. And we wanna ensure that the repair services we offer are close to the point of need, because in this way, we can reduce our operational impact supporting local communities.
They also create new jobs on a local level. On top of all of this Worn Wear for us is also platform where we can communicate with our community about circularity models, about the responsible consumption and footprint. So that’s another important piece of how we would like to educate our customers and our consumers about sustainability.
[00:09:02] Jaideep Prabhu: You mentioned consumers there and their role. What exactly is their role? So how do you take the consumers along, especially when they may be a trade off for them between cost and convenience on the one hand and sustainability on the other?
[00:09:16] Gianluca Pandolfo: Well, first of all consumers play a huge role in the process of being responsible. And I also do believe that they have an enormous responsibility. They play an important role for the simple fact that the consumers make a choice every time they buy something as it in the same way, when there is election and we go and we vote for a certain party.
What I do for example, every time I need to buy something, I always check if there is a B Corp company that is selling that product. And if there is, there is no second choice. I will buy the product from that company. And that way I can support the B Corp community. On the other side, the consumer have the responsibility to educate themself in order to make a responsible choice.
And in Patagonia, we feel we have the obligation to help our community to get as much information as possible in a form that is digestible in order to add them to make responsible choices that have a positive impact and be honest and transparent with our community is key is probably the only way to build the trust over the years.
[00:10:24] Venkata Gandikota: I want to go back to the last question about repairability. The cost for repairability, of course, needs to be within a certain range, otherwise the reason why people keep buying new things are because the cost of repairability, especially in developed countries is so high that they always think like I would rather buy something rather than repair it. Have you thought about that kind of a thing?
[00:10:45] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yes. When I was referring before about applying industrial design into clothing design is when you wanna make a product that is sustainable or is repairable, you need to start from the design of the product. You need to make the product repairable a very low cost. Start through all the process. And that is definitely the key.
For example, we are also working also a way to construct our jackets in order to make sure that the zip of the jacket are easy to be repaired. And also in a fast way. The cost of repairs is not apply only to the product, but also the time that is needed to repair the product. Patagonia for now is repairing for free.
There is a iron clad guarantee, and we are really repair our product free of charge. We take charge of all the cost from the shipment to the repair and we also ship back. We also have a Worn Wear tour. So we have two trucks that are going across Europe and are repairing product of any brand free of charge.
So whatever you wanna repair a shirt, a jacket, a competitor jacket, doesn’t matter. We are there to repair them and to make you happy. Because everyone has a product and we need to understand product is memories. So we need to keep that product alive as long as possible.
And we are responsible of that product, not only when we buy and we use it, but also when we are going to dismiss it. So is recycle it or sell it.
[00:12:04] Jaideep Prabhu: I wonder if I could followup with two questions about consumers, just sticking on that point. So one is, you mentioned that you do a lot of this like repair work for free. So does that mean that the initial cost or price of the piece of the clothing includes that potential service charge down the road?
That’s one question about price and how you cover the cost. And the other is, are you very niche in that you only get consumers who are already into sustainability or are you somehow now also making inroads into a kind of more mass market?
[00:12:40] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yeah, to the first question we don’t. We don’t upcharge our product taking in consideration this we don’t. We just absorb that cost in our P&L and in every company there are a lot of inefficiency in every corner of the company. And what is important sometimes what probably we don’t stress out enough is that we are really disciplined with our P and L because we are really convinced that if you wanna be an outdoor activist company, you need to have your house in order.
So to donate 1% our turnover to a no profit organization, we need also to make sure that we pay our employees, we pay our suppliers. So we are pretty disciplined on that. Back to your question, no, we don’t upcharge in our cost. We just absorb and we don’t do other stuff because this is more important than other things. So we prioritize this instead of other things.
In terms of distribution about mass market, there are two things here. One from a business point of view, I will not call that we will go into the mass market. What we wanna do is work with partners that are like-minded.
So we wanna work with partners out there in the market that they are key, not only to sell our product, but also to help us to spread our mission statement that is save our own planet. Then from a brand perspective, what we wanna do is achieve as many people as possible because we wanna have more people fighting for the same goal that is to make this planet a better place where everyone can live our generation and for the generation. So the two thing are a little bit separate, but definitely we wanna be known as much as possible because we wanna mobilize as much people as possible when it’s needed through protest and to strikes, for example
[00:14:21] Venkata Gandikota: In your answer, you pointed out a very good thing about, you being very good about your P&L. And then your company takes care of your employees. And I think that is it shows that, Patagonia seems to be a very employee focused sort of company as well. So can you tell us a bit about your workforce and how you engage them in your activism?
[00:14:40] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yeah. I’m an employee. Or Patagonia as well to feel empowered, to join us in driving for our mission to save our home planet. So Patagonia as a company, our company purpose runs through everything we do, and we empower and support our employees to tell our story in their own way, with their own role in any way they can.
And I also stress in their own role, because it’s really important for us. It’s really deep understood that each of us, through our main job in the company, we can serve the mission statement. For example, as a sales guys, we know that by selling product in a responsible way more to know we generate 1% of that turnover is going to go to non profit organization. My colleagues that are working the credit department, they know when they collect money from the dealers, those money are needed to pay the suppliers and the business. If you work in the logistic department, you wanna make sure the product goes from the warehouse to the dealers and to our customers.
So we have this role. Each of us play a active role every day when we go to work. Then of course there are other way that can be used to empower my colleague, our employees, to be an activist. I give you a couple of examples that I think they’re pretty nice.
So for example, my colleagues from different departments across all Europe that can take part to the 1% for the planet grants council. And in this way, they participate in the process to donate money to the NGOs we are connected with. And we do it twice per year. Another example that I’m really proud of, you will understand why, last May Patagonia release a statement to show support, to the Italian Zan bill.
It’s a bill against hate crime, intend to prevent violence and discrimination for reason based on gender sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability. And this action was initiated by three Italian colleagues of mine. I was one, another two. And when we saw the opportunity, we spoke internally in Patagonia Europe, we went to the US and we explained why we wanted to support the Zan bill.
And the US told us if you believe in it, if it’s part of our mission statement and if this is a moment where you can influence, you should speak up. And what we did, we took over the Instagram page of our stores in Italy and we made a public statement in support of the Zan bill.
And this is really showing how the company is empowering us to stand up and use also Patagonia to fight for things that we really care of.
Another example to empower all of us in Patagonia is what we call the Earth university. The Earth university is a non-conventional training that is focused on developing soft skills that would help Patagonia’s employees to become better citizen, responsible individuals, and then empathic leaders.
And is also a fun training. I do remember myself dancing in the wood and hugging trees during that training because you know what we also have fun in this company. It’s like we have a serious mission statement. We wanna save our home planet, but you can achieve it also by having fun with your colleagues.
The Earth university is helping you to look inside yourself. But it’s also give you an opportunity to have fun with your colleagues and connect with your colleagues in a different way. And then I keep the best for last, because among the other thing, we also offer activist training to our employees to attend the strike and protest.
But also we have a global bail policy, which means that if we go to a protest and we are caught by the police, we go in jail. Patagonia is paying to take us out from the jail. And that’s, I would say that is quite unique. I’ve never seen it in any other company before.
[00:18:24] Jaideep Prabhu: That’s really quite remarkable. And I also love the idea of actually hugging a tree. I’m trying to remember. I think I’ve done it once or twice. What was the experience like for you? Because it could be quite a moving experience, too. An interesting experience.
[00:18:38] Gianluca Pandolfo: Absolutely. I was smiling when I was saying, but it is all about connecting with nature. And hugging a tree deep down into the forest with your colleagues is really going to bring in different vibes, a different pace. And then you intimacy with your colleagues, with the nature is becoming bigger.
And then all in a sudden, you understand that, yeah, there’s much more than a job. There’s much more than you. And then that you take thing for granted. And then again, you should try to hug a tree, all the energies is coming back is quite something that you will not expect.
[00:19:10] Jaideep Prabhu: I can imagine. I want to ask you now about, other stakeholders outside the company that Patagonia engages with. Can you tell us a bit about partners, other stakeholders that you engage in trying to meet your environmental and social objective?
[00:19:26] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yeah. We strongly believe that no one can save our own planet and have any meaningful impact on circularity or any other project acting alone on isolation. That definitely is not possible. Right now we are connected with more than thousand NGOs globally, and we are also engaged with several universities in the US, and also in Europe. We also see that more and more people are engaging with our environmental and social campaigns than before and we also make our films, for example, accessible free of charge through YouTube, for example. We usually have each film that we are releasing, we also Call to action related to that. So it’s not just you watch a nice movie, but usually you can have an impact by signing for one of our petition. And that requires a lot of work for the company.
That’s the reason why in 2018, we launched a digital platform that is called Patagonia action works. And this is a platform that Yvon Chouinard the founder like to describe as a dating platform because what we are doing is we are making sure that individuals, our community can easily get in contact with NGOs and those NGOs sometimes need money, but also sometimes they just need skills and know how.
For example, if you’re a graphic designer, you wanna donate your time, you go to our platform, you digit the city where you’re living, or you are close by and if there is an NGO that is looking for a graphic design, you can easily donate your time and help them to design a flyers, a logo or whatever. So since 2018, Action works has matched more than 2,600 volunteers with environmental non profit resulting 55,000 hours donated to those NGOs. That is translated in money is a saving for the NGOs of more than 10 million dollars. That’s the way we like to engage with the stakeholders.
[00:21:16] Venkata Gandikota: That’s amazing. I really like that aspect of external collaboration.
Just based on the social and environmental justice related topic. So I read in an interview of you on Lampoon magazine that you said for Patagonia, social justice is inextricably linked with environmental justice.
So can you elaborate on that? So that’s one question and then the second part would be would you say that being environmentally and socially active helps Patagonia do better financially? So how do you balance financial performance with these kind of issues?
[00:21:47] Gianluca Pandolfo: Oh, this is a nice question. So let me start by saying that climate change impacts people inequally with those often least responsible bearing the highest burden. These communities, often we call them frontline communities are communities of color and low income. That they live in neighborhoods, where there is a lack of structure that can support them.
These frontline communities are more and more centered and empowered in the climate justice movement. And now they’re also prioritizing Patagonia’s approach to climate solutions. As an activist company, we have a long look at environmental protection as our top priority, but now we have recognized that to succeed in saving our home planet, it require a deeper commitment on what we call this intersection between environmental and social justice work. The challenges that we are facing we need to find the right way to do it. We need to find those the right tone to do that. And the same time we need to acknowledge that we still have a lot to learn and we are in this path.
So it’s a journey and we are committed. We are really committed to do better. If you allow me, I can give you a recent example of this because I feel like it’s really nice and you’re also invited to to watch the film we have just released and we are screening across Europe. A film that is called Run to the Source. It’s about a trail runner. His name is Martin that is attempting to set a new, fast and known time on the 184 miles running from the Thames barrier in London to the source of the river in in the Cotswolds. We choose to make this film to start a conversation broadly about inclusion and acceptance in the outer space, through Martin’s personal story and the wider experience of black people, black, British people in the past generations.
And we did a screening few days ago in the UK and what was interesting, so I linked to the second question. I got a phone call from a colleague of mine that was there, that the majority of the people in that room didn’t know anything about Patagonia. Few of them, they were Googling Patagonia.
Just to understand what it was all about. And then I had this conversation, we say, oh, finally, we are able to reach a new audience that we can start talking with people that can bring different perspective about diversity and inclusion. And that is one piece. On the other piece, going to your second question.
Potentially all those people could be also new customers for Patagonia. So that is very tricky because we are not promoting our brand during these events. We just talk about the social issue here and opportunity to engage with a broader audience. So there is no, we don’t combine commercial versus social things, but we cannot deny that when they are exposed to our brand, the chance that they will start deep dive into our brand, they will understand who we are and why we are in business.
There’s also the challenge they will start a certain point that will choose Patagonia versus another brand. So we cannot deny that, that’s not definitely is not our main reason why we have this film now screening across Europe. I wanna be clear with that, cause it’s important us.
[00:24:54] Jaideep Prabhu: I can imagine when you set such high standards for yourself that you also become potentially vulnerable to critical press, for instance, if the press accuses you of using forced labor and Xinjiang or using materials like down or wool, that might involve animal mistreatment.
So how do you deal with that? And do you think, because you’re an activist company, you also face higher risk of those kinds of expose?
[00:25:22] Gianluca Pandolfo: Yeah. First of all, Patagonia is committed to transparency, accountability, and fixing problems with honesty, whenever they come to light. So that is the starting point. And and we do mistake, but this is, there is also the positive side of doing mistake because it’s showing to everyone that no one can do everything right and then if you wanna be a pioneer in anything, or if you wanna do something it’s inevitable that you will do mistake. What is important is to admit those mistake and take action. So the mistake is a problem itself, but how you deal with the problem is what is making a difference. And in all our cases, again, we deep dive into the matter.
And then we are transparent with our community, with our customers. If we did a mistake as we did in the past, we apologize and we take action and we communicate those actions to our customers and our communities. And you know what? Yes, they are pretty tough with Patagonia. Every time we do a mistake because expectation is high, but true conversation, true communication, we always be able to explain why something happened and how we are trying to fix it. And somehow we always trying to find a common ground and we are really grateful for those activists that are checking what we do and a deep dive on the way we operate, because sometimes we can’t be everywhere. And we can’t check everything.
That’s the reality. So if someone does it for us and then is pointing the finger on us, telling what you need to do better, we feel really blessed and we really give a lot of values to those NGOs and activists that are doing that.
[00:26:56] Venkata Gandikota: You have had obviously great track record as a company and we have this COP 26 in Glasgow last year, and then companies are newly embracing, maybe what Patagonia had been doing for some time now. But what do you see? What does the future hold for Patagonia as a company moving forward?
[00:27:11] Gianluca Pandolfo: We have a lot because it is a hell of a job to save our home planet. We have few goals for the future in terms of climate goal. We are going to become carbon neutral by 2025. We wanna also moving away from Virgin petroleum fibers by 2025. By 2025 we also wanna use a preferred materials that is organic or regenerative cotton and recycled polyester, or nylon among others.
We are 87% right now and counting, and this effort will help us to reduce emission by 15%. We also signed for the science based target by reducing our greenhouses gases emission by 55%, by 2030. On the environment campaign, we are keep pushing and continuing to push our We the Power campaign, to encourage more cities across Europe to switch to community energy model.
And we are also working on our campaign to support the first ever river national park around the Vjosa river in the Balkan peninsula. The Vjosa river is the last free flow river that we have in Europe and we are working with the local NGOs, also with the prime minister over there to see if we can help to create the first national park over there.
And we also is the last part that is brand new and it will come to life in this autumn, we are working on natural based solution campaign starting this fall.
[00:28:32] Venkata Gandikota: Amazing. I want to ask a question. So this question is based on I read this New York Times article about organic cotton from India. I don’t know if you have come across it as well.
[00:28:42] Gianluca Pandolfo: No, I haven’t seen.
[00:28:43] Venkata Gandikota: So the whole piece was about how European and American organizations because they can’t verify the organic cotton coming from India anymore. So companies like Patagonia or H&Ms of this world. So there seems to be a corruption within the certification process because you rely on somebody else and then they rely on somebody else and then so on and so forth.
So I don’t know. What is your take on those kind of things?
[00:29:10] Gianluca Pandolfo: This is a bummer. It’s like these things are happening now is India. Next time will be this very difficult to unlock because as you said, you rely on a certification that is relying to third parties. Yeah, I think the notion of having a company that is able to control the whole supply chain from the fabric, the Virgin material to the product is very difficult.
It’s very difficult and I’m not even sure if there is any company that does that. I think it is trying to do our best. You need to put some trust there. And then as I said before, when you realize that something is wrong, not waste time to try to find excuse and try to justify why you are there and try to justify something or sometimes justify the fact that you have been caught there. I think that just is a waste of time. You just to act fast, deep dive into the matter. And again, apologize if you did a mistake and correct, and move on and try to find a more sustainable way to use organic cotton. Yeah. But this is my personal view on that, because I also think that is, is a very tricky one. I’m not so sure if there is a, there is an answer there.
But the reality is that out there when you start deep diving to the things supply chain mainly is a very complex and you just need to commit to deep dive more and self correct yourself when things are not going the right way.
[00:30:34] Jaideep Prabhu: Gianluca once again. Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it.
[00:30:38] Gianluca Pandolfo: Thanks to you for giving me the chance. It is a pleasure, pleasure to meet you. It was a pleasure to have a conversation with both of you.
[00:30:43] Venkata Gandikota: Thank you.
[00:30:44] Outro: Thanks for listening to our more, less podcast, you can follow us also on social media, our Twitter handle is more with less pod and our handles on Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube are more with less podcast.
Venkata Gandikota is a frugal innovation and impact investing evangelist and Prof Jaideep Prabhu is a Professor of Marketing at Cambridge University’s Judge Business School and co-author of an award-winning book on frugal innovation.
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